D&D WotC OGL Discussion

[JohnnFour]

As this issue seems to be uniting the community and generating lots of talk, let's put it here.

 

[StormR]

As this issue seems to be uniting the community and generating lots of talk, let's put it here.

Thanks, Johnn!

 

[StormR]

Since I kind of instigated (apparently w/ several others), I'll start w/ my 2𝇍.

TBH, I haven't gotten a copy of the 90(?)page document to read through for myself yet, bc #life, although I did read the Gizmodo article and a couple of others that have come out.
It really looks like WotC (Hasbro) is doubling down on their intention to "maximize monitization", especially with this division as seen in 1.1.
Ultimately, I'm not all that sure how it's going to affect me since I've been leaning heavily toward the 0DD/OSR variants since they most closely resemble the game I first played in '76/77. I've been trying out a number of indie games of late that stream line play, have a more coherent rule set, and are easy to get rolling. (Pun intended). Like 5 Torches Deep, Deathbringer, MazeRats, and even a couple of more complex versions like Stars w/o number and Numenera.
I'll even admit I'm succumbing to the "requirement" in the OSR community to diy my own gaming system...
Anyway, I'm also suspicious that despite a 90 page document "leak", it could also be a extremist decoy that Hasbro can later "recant" after the outrage makes the headlines and then slip in what they're really looking to do which will still likely be egregious (especially in light of the claim that OGL 1.0 will never be changed or rescinded blah, blah, blah) but will look to be a shining example of "compromise and listening to the voice of their customers".
Regardless, the bottom line is the bottom line; they won't likely be losing any money in the long run.
My day starts at 4am tomorrow, so I'm going to do a quick search for a download of the full 1.1 doc as it is currently out in the wild and in my "copious free time", start plowing through it.
But I'm not holding my breath about what kind of positive outlook I'll end up with...

 

[ExileInParadise]

TTRPG should be about fun - but OGL 1.1 seems like being forced to play Papers and Paychecks.
I've been all over the place with this and I had a gamut of emotions and rationalizations.
Open gaming is non-negotiable for me now.
I do not want to waste any more time at all putting effort into any game I don't have some level of freedom and co-ownership with.
Almost all of the money I've spent on gaming since the OGL came out has been for openly licensed games.
I will not appreciate *at all* if Hasbro somehow takes OGL away from me and impairs any of the rights I *paid for* by investing in OGL games.
I will not appreciate collateral damage to the TTRPG industry beyond Dungeons and Dragons that these OGL changes may trigger.
I won't appreciate if huge chunks of my DTRPG library "disappear" to comply with some radical license play.
If they push through - Dungeons and Dragons will ultimately be the biggest long-term loser starting with the fact I will never spend another dime on it or any other product from them.
Already creative folks who were willing to share that with D&D are abandoning it and relicensing to cut OGL out of their future.
Every work that is being relicensed from OGL to something else like Creative Commons drains a litle more of the future from Dungeons and Dragons as it loses mindshare and network effects and droves of creative people who begin injecting that passion elsewhere.
If they want to be an island - so be it - they will survive on momentum for a while.
But the island is *already shrinking* and they haven't even published the change.
But it seems silly to not have learned the lessons of TSR's downfall when you're the company who picked it up.
Who will own D&D after Hasbro and will they be smart enough to learn the lesson of what's about to happen - by their own hand?
And seriously asking here - who would be stupid enough to bet their continued future on a new license with a company who pulled such a massive bait and switch as what OGL 1.0a to 1.1 appears to be?
How I feel about it?
R.I.P D&D
1974 - 2023

 

[ExileInParadise]

Sign the OpenD&D Letter
https://www.opendnd.games/

Sign the "Don't Change the OGL" Petition
https://chng.it/SWrTsYMGrn

 

[Stephan Hornick]

I‘m not much following D&D news lately (as I‘m currently running my own homebrew GURPS game). But I heard of sth. like Matt Mercer having to pay for using D&D in his critical role game?
So, could one of you please shortly summarize to me, what this is all about with the OGL, open game license I presume?

 

[JochenL]

This summarizes it: https://www.opendnd.games/

However, Wizards of the Coast (WotC) has announced an updated OGL (version 1.1)—an attempt to dismantle the entire RPG industry. This new license intends to completely revoke the old OGL, a perpetual license designed by WotC themselves to be irrevocable.

Nothing about this new license is “open.” It chokes the vibrant community that has flourished under the original license. No matter the creator, it locks everyone into a new contract that restricts their work, makes it mandatory to report their projects and revenues to Wizards of the Coast, and gives WotC the legal right to reproduce and resell creators’ content without permission or compensation. The new license can also be modified with worse terms or terminated at any time without any recompense by creators.

For the largest creators in the industry, WotC is imposing an impossible tax of 25%—based on their total sales above $750K, not profit. This is anti-competitive, monopolistic behavior designed to crush small businesses that collectively employ hundreds of designers, writers, and artists. Under this tax, it becomes impossible for creators to put books on game stores’ shelves or run Kickstarters for large audiences. Even though this only affects some companies in the space, those targeted are still tiny compared to Wizards of the Coast, which made $1.3 billion in 2021.

On top of that, games such as Pathfinder 1E and 2E, 13th Age, Fudge, and Traveller—which use the 1.0 OGL as the backbone of their existence—will need to cease sales of upcoming products or give WotC 25% of their revenue to stay in compliance with the new license.

Furthermore, under the new license, virtual tabletops (VTTs) cannot operate. They can no longer support OGL systems, and creators can no longer release modules and adventures on popular digital platforms such as Foundry, Alchemy, or Shard.

If this new license gains wide adoption, the tabletop industry will shrink to a fraction of its current size, shuttering the small businesses that populate your local cons and putting a stop to their creations. Innovation in the gaming industry will evaporate; your favorite games will be trapped in the past, instead of being allowed to migrate to your phone, virtual reality, and beyond. Diversity in the industry will shrink away, as projects from marginalized creators are effectively written out of the future.

We expect Wizards of the Coast to attempt expensive and illegal lawsuits to enforce compliance with their new agreement. Even if they aren’t successful in court, they will irrevocably damage the tabletop industry.

 

[JochenL]

Some time ago, I decided to start Prepping The Demonplague. I asked you whether to use PF1, PF2, or OSE so you all can benefit from the conversion. The recent addition of statblocks for 5e and OSE to CL was at least in part motivated by this. This feels like a wasted effort.

I want another game engine now, non-OGL, yet permissive. I shortly thought of O.L.D., but sadly this is OGL, too.
EABA came to my mind, but this is a toolbox that needs a lot of work to lay a common foundation for The Demonplague.

So, do you know of permissively non-OGL licensed game systems suitable for D&D-like fantasy?

 

[StormR]

Some time ago, I decided to start Prepping The Demonplague. I asked you whether to use PF1, PF2, or OSE so you all can benefit from the conversion. The recent addition of statblocks for 5e and OSE to CL was at least in part motivated by this. This feels like a wasted effort.

I want another game engine now, non-OGL, yet permissive. I shortly thought of O.L.D., but sadly this is OGL, too.
EABA came to my mind, but this is a toolbox that needs a lot of work to lay a common foundation for The Demonplague.

So, do you know of permissively non-OGL licensed game systems suitable for D&D-like fantasy?

I know I've run into a boatload of both OGL & non-OGL as I've been researching mechanic idea for my own game system, but right now, I can't recall which is which; partly bc it's been a while and partly bc of recent memory issues.
That said, I have more time lately so I can begin sorting them (kind of selfishly, tbh) and will gladly post what I find. It may take a day or three though.

Quest accepted!

 

[JohnnFour]

So, do you know of permissively non-OGL licensed game systems suitable for D&D-like fantasy?

Here's a list of probably non-OGL fantasy TTRPGs on my shelf, but I have not researched their licensing:

• Five Torches Deep
• Forbidden Lands
• Zweihander
• Mythras
• Hackmaster
• One Ring 2E
• Index Card RPG <= This is my best candidate so far
• Monte Cook stuff =>
• Genesys

I have my eye on Into the Odd for awhile as well.

 

[JohnnFour]

Kevin Crawford's stuff doesn't have OGL:
https://sine-nomine-publishing.myshopify.com/

Stars Without Number
Worlds Without Number

 

[JochenL]

Kevin Crawford's stuff doesn't have OGL:
https://sine-nomine-publishing.myshopify.com/

Stars Without Number
Worlds Without Number

Are they permissively licensed?

 

[JohnnFour]

It doesn't look like it. They are copyrighted.

 

[ExileInParadise]

Some time ago, I decided to start Prepping The Demonplague. I asked you whether to use PF1, PF2, or OSE so you all can benefit from the conversion. The recent addition of statblocks for 5e and OSE to CL was at least in part motivated by this. This feels like a wasted effort.

Not a wasted effort - there are still tons and piles of GMs out there whole will continue to run and play 5E and OSE - the OGL shenanigans don't suddenly stop everyone everywhere from even opening the books.
So, those GMs will still have templates and tools that help in CL.
We just now have to look beyond the WotC sunset - there appears to be a coming tumultuous period of everyone who can unleashing their own systems ... and the consequent balkanization and tribal wars until new clear contenders emerge.
It's really always been this way anyway - we just now get to see more of it without a huge dark shadow over it all.

I am not throwing out the 5E books I bought just because the publisher done lost their mind.
Just like I didn't throw out my 3E books either.

 

[JochenL]

For all interested gamers, here is a Non-OGL Fantasy Bundle: https://bundleofholding.com/presents/NonOGLFantasy

 

[ExileInParadise]

Shots fired! Paizo and other publishers are uniting under a new Open RPG Creative (ORC) License.
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v?Paizo-Announces-SystemNeutral-Open-RPG-License

And, I've heard that someone in WotC leaked that they are judging the OGL 1.1 blowback based on D&D Beyond cancellations ... and that when that leaked - people in Twitter started posting their D&D Beyond cancellations ...

 

[JohnnFour]

@ExileInParadise Thanks, we've registered. I was very excited to hear this news and read their post. Relieved to hear they can make PF2E ORC compliant without much effort.

 

[ExileInParadise]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl

 

[JohnnFour]

I have remained silent on the WotC OGL situation, mostly because I try to pour my energy into creating stuff and avoid politics and dramas.

But Jochen and I have signed up to Paizo's ORC list to get more information. We have also given Paizo permission to use RPT and CL's names as supporters of ORC if they choose.

Jochen and I are waiting to see both the released OGL updates and the ORC license before deciding on a path forward. We've only signed an expression of interest of ORC at this point.

The WotC OGL 1.1 leak had a date of Jan 2023, I believe. So the timing for publishers removing non-compliant products who choose not to update to OGL 2.0 could be tight.

Waiting in the balance are the future of:

* The Demonplague
* Faster Combat and Faster Combat 5E
* 5 Room Dungeon Series
* NPC Essentials
* Stat Block templates in CL
* Potentially some freebies in /downloads and other places RPT has shared over the years
* The 5RDZ#1 we give to Campaign Logger subscribers
* Potentially some default generators

Jochen and I are waiting to hear what the official license will be before creating a plan of action. We might update those products, but for certain there will be delays as we're focused on catching up with Wizard of Story, Wizard of Combat, and CL Features and Bugs.

Ultimately, we only need a WotC OGL for when we use any WotC intellectual property. Demonplague draws heavily on the 5E SRD. But the other items do not as much and can easily be purged.

===

Thank you to the TON of people who have contacted us asking if Roleplaying Tips will survive this potential turn of events.

What a time to leave the day job and try to make a full-time living from RPG! I'm sticking to that choice I made in 2022 though, and we'll see how 2023 goes as I endeavor to make Roleplaying Tips a full-time character build that puts food on my table and more books on my shelves.

To answer the main question people are asking us other than what our opinions are of this whole thing, **"Will Roleplaying Tips survive should OGL 1.0a be de-authorized?**"

The answer is yes.

Historically, we have navigated similar situations such as:

• TSR's sudden increase in takedown notices and enforcement. I decoupled RPT from any game system, genre, or publisher because of that, though I still write most of the time with fantasy and D&D-esque games in mind.
  
  
• The D&D 4E GSL. I see echoes of that in the proposed OGL 1.1 document that was leaked. The GSL required game companies to register themselves with WotC to gain access to the community and IP kit, and use a very limited pool of allowed IP assets.
  
  
• The DM's Guild. That license requires publishers to give WotC 50% of revenues (not profits - gross sales calculated before expenses are deducted) and 100% ownership of your products sold on that platform.

OGL 1.1 seems to me to be an evolution of the GSL and DM's Guild licenses. From a corporate point of view, The DM's Guild is a raving success. So I can see how some Hasbro and WotC staff would see continuing along that vein being good.

Moving forward, Jochen and I are continuing to focus on executing on our 2023 roadmap, including finishing Wizard of Story, Wizard of Combat, and Campaign Logger Development.

We will not make ourselves dependent on one license, or one company, or one game system as there be dragons down that path.

We want all game masters to have more fun at every game.

Paizo System-Neutral ORC license announcement:
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si7v

WotC official reaction to the OGL 1.1 leak backlash:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl

 

[ExileInParadise]

Now that WotC has backtracked some (via D&D Beyond tho) ... well... now we enter the dangerous part where the righteous fury cools - but nothing is yet cast in stone. What subversion is about to occur now that Wizards knows how precarious their position really is? Tune in next week to find out. ORC needs to be complete, and everyone not using D20 SRDs needs to at least dual license in case this is only a temporary calm ...

My favorite Reddit snark on it: A campaign of ORCs overthrowing some wizards living on a coast who are terrorizing their local community... there's a tournament module in there somewhere - maybe using James Wards Green Races campaign world James Ward made Metamorphosis Alpha then Wizards smacked him for publishing it and Green Races OGL "incorrectly" and demanded they all be pulled James Ward then made Metamorphosis Alpha as a D6 game as a big NOPE to Wizards