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Looking for help - Adventuring a gold / silver mine

Stephan Hornick

Community Goblin & Master of the Archive
Platinum WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Borderland Explorer
Dear fellow GMs!

In two weeks I will be running a game based on my players entering a mine to find missing children, while knowing that there might be a centipede-like huge insectoid monster hive nearby and poisonous silver ore in the walls.

It wouldn't be the first time for me to run a mine adventure, but I want to make it a blast.
  • How do you prepare for something like this?
  • Do you have maps (that I could borrow)?
  • Do you have other tools you use?
  • Do you use maps with fog of war for this?
  • Do you have specific tips to increase the fun in a theater-of-mind approach (to make the progress and depths vivid?
  • How do you approach an exploration of a mine vs. a standard cave system or dungeon?
I'm looking forward to your help.
 

JohnnFour

Game Master
Staff member
Adamantium WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Gamer Lifestyle
Demonplague Author
Borderland Explorer
Envision what you think is the ideal session, and work backwards from that to game design.

That's probably not helpful. But that's my high level approach, because it's just like a board game or any other game. "I want a game where players crawl a mine. I don't have one on my shelf, so I'll make one. Ok, where do I start?"

As Angry GM says, adventures are game design. They are the game. And we need to build the games we want to play.

Something less fuzzy:
  • How do you prepare for something like this?
Wikipedia. Research mines, especially older ones. (Apologies if you're already an expert on mining).

From R&D I start to gather some core facts about the environment. (Feature Location.)

For example, two cool decisions you get to make:
  1. What material was being mined?
  2. What primary mining method was being used?
Doing some R&D gives you adventures with that realistic edge and details for emergent gameplay.

Maybe you're is an above-ground desert salt mine. Or a tundra copper mine.

Once you start detailing Setting, look for ways in the Polish stage to turn some ideas on the head or make them perfect for our type of gaming.

Our What If... tool helps here.

For example, What If...the material being mined has changed the monsters. Giant Copper Centipedes and Slithering Salt Centipedes sound terrifying.

Anywho, after some R&D and filling up my notebook with details about the topic, I keep that handy for Build and Polish. I'll put asterisks beside stuff that's particularly appealing to me that I want to build my game with. In other words, I do R&D to start filling my adventure's Bucket List.

  • Do you have maps (that I could borrow)?
Not being cheeky here, but I use Google. What you find on the internet is legal to use for personal use like a game night with friends. At least, in Canada it is.

I love DungeonDraft. I can't wait to have time to get good at it. You could also Google a real map and trace it in your mapping app of choice.

For mine design, these tips are fantastic: https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/13085/roleplaying-games/jaquaying-the-dungeon

To answer the question though, I do not have any maps. I need to find an app to organize all my files, I can't find anything on my hard drive any more.
  • Do you have other tools you use?
  • Do you use maps with fog of war for this?
Are you using a VTT? If so, I've found Fog of War great.

But I don't use FOW every time. If I have a players map (no labels or secrets revealed) then I often give my players the map up front.

This gives them a bunch of interesting stuff to think about, plan over in a backchannel, and keep some players more engaged.

Caveat by introducing the map in-game as potentially not being accurate. In VTT land, I do this by changing maps via drawing tools. It looks amateur, but so far no complaints.

In real life, I draw maps for players myself during the game, so I make whatever changes I want as I go based on current gameplay.

If you can find some images of the environment, that helps a lot. Especially if you use details from those images to effect matters of import during play.

  • Do you have specific tips to increase the fun in a theater-of-mind approach (to make the progress and depths vivid?
It depends on the system. Sly Flourish champions TotM fights, but it doesn't work for me for D&D. Too many numbers in the system players need to understand to go without a battlemap in my experience. This actually happened for a DCC game I played in recently, too. The GM broke TotM to put our tokens on map so we saw relative distances and positioning because the group was getting confused.

Check Sly Flourish's site for his great tips of TotM.

My #1 tip for TotM is to wield the game rules in a friendly way conducive your TotM. As soon as you involve positioning, distances, and tactics that need map support, you'll need a map.

For vividness, you can draw from any R&D details you learned or noted. Turn your mine into multiple 5RDs where each 5RD's Feature Location is a new environment theme. That keeps things fresh in players' eyes, and gives to a storytelling tool for conveying player progression.

My goto reference here is Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness and the movie Apocalypse Now.

  • How do you approach an exploration of a mine vs. a standard cave system or dungeon?
Make the mining stuff useful to gameplay.

Make what was being mined part of your design.

For example, you might decide mining carts were used. Those now become Checkov's Gun for Room IV or something foes leverage for advantage.

Also, the track can be used to trap the players (most people will make assumptions when you introduce concepts like "mine" and "mining carts on tracks" and you can leverage that for Room III and IV). I guarantee players will follow the tracks blindly and not think to look for sink holes under the tracks waiting to collapse.

I hope this helps a bit. Sorry I'm unable to provide a complete answer - I'm under a writing deadline.

Cheers.
 

Stephan Hornick

Community Goblin & Master of the Archive
Platinum WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Borderland Explorer
First of all, thank you very much for your detailed answer, Johnn!

"I want a game where players crawl a mine. I don't have one on my shelf, so I'll make one. Ok, where do I start?"
My general approach would be ""I want a game where my players imagine/experience their PCs crawl a mine. I don't have one on my shelf, so I first look for sources to borrow and adjust. If I don't find anything, I'll make one myself. Ok, where do I start?"

And we need to build the games we want to play.
Right. So, I'm not quite sure, which experience I want to bring my players. I want them to feel vividly how it is like for their PCs to be enclosed in endless darkness, to be opressed by the feeling of dozens or hundreds of meters of stone between them and the surface. I want to show them rail wagons and a maze of paths, some areas in which the caves are sturdy and improved, in other areas raw walls and sharp ores. I want to describe sparkling silver ores in the darkness, I want to describe the echoes the tunnels make, the still air, the feeling of horror if/when they hear a chittering noise as if by some big insects in the dark. So, I want to give them vivid descriptions, not just a map to traverse. But: I need this map for myself. And I need to focus on area descriptions and not on single room descriptions. I need to present them with options where to go and give them hints on what it is they will find if they follow this or that route. And I want to limit this adventure to 1 3h session.

I realize now, that I probably don't want a map-based approach, although this might be typical for most groups when they think about dungeoneering. But anyways, I want to peek into this direction also. How do you proceed with VTT or camera only in these situations, so that it makes you guys fun?

Basically, I want to know of you (Johnn personally and all other GMs) how you plan in general, and how you did it already in detail (text walls of descriptions or session notes or GM notes or maps or scene frames or whatever are fine with me to get an impression).

Wikipedia. Research mines, especially older ones. (Apologies if you're already an expert on mining).
From R&D I start to gather some core facts about the environment. (Feature Location.)
For example, two cool decisions you get to make:
  1. What material was being mined?
  2. What primary mining method was being used?
Doing some R&D gives you adventures with that realistic edge and details for emergent gameplay.
I actually know very little about mining work. Great idea to start there, but do you have any immediate ideas about it from your own knowledge what to expect? It is a gold and silver mine, which was worked by dwarves in their glory some 500 years in the past of current events. But only the gold was mined, the silver was left due to a poisonous strain. The dwarves had actively collapsed all the lower levels. Now, gnomes have begun to re-open the mines and work them with their human companions. Many humans have started new mine entrances though in hope they will get even luckier. So I imagine several entrances and different techniques, but one main route of mining, some carts and old technology like elevators, but no big mining machines (or just one or two broken ones in a bigger cave?)

Once you start detailing Setting, look for ways in the Polish stage to turn some ideas on the head or make them perfect for our type of gaming.
Any immediate idea?

Our What If... tool helps here.
For example, What If...the material being mined has changed the monsters. Giant Copper Centipedes and Slithering Salt Centipedes sound terrifying.
Ok, this is covered. The are connected to the silver, but I don't want to spoiler. Nice ideas though!

Not being cheeky here, but I use Google. What you find on the internet is legal to use for personal use like a game night with friends. At least, in Canada it is.
I totally agree. But before researching and searching hours (and I know myself, I can get too invested quickly), I just wanted to ask for ready to use maps of the community. Something like "Hey, I used this one. I especially liked this area here because..."
I did some searching, but on the one hand, there are so many good and bad maps, that it takes a lot of time to find the one that is fitting. In addition, there is a great difference in dungeon maps, cave maps, mine maps, and dwarven mine maps. I would have loved some hint on what to look for to make the map a convincing and non-linear dwarven mine map.

Although it is specifically to dungeons, this is a great source. Thank you.

If I have a players map (no labels or secrets revealed) then I often give my players the map up front.
I worry that they will look at every area and corner and just jump to where they... but wait, isn't this a good thing? Yes, it is! They decide where to go based on the ingame map. But I will not move miniatures there, but describe their progress. They can look at the map in hope to get hints on where they would need to go, but in the end, some things might be different entirely. Yes! The Kikimore are able to burrow through (non-dwarven) stone walls and can create tunnels, but they can also close those tunnels again with their saliva, creating hints on where they went, if you know what to look for. Thank you for your comment!

If you can find some images of the environment, that helps a lot. Especially if you use details from those images to effect matters of import during play.
That is also my approach. Pictures will often determine important scene backgrounds or influence my general descriptions.

Check Sly Flourish's site for his great tips of TotM.
Thank you for the link. Seems interesting! I will check it out later.

My #1 tip for TotM is to wield the game rules in a friendly way conducive your TotM. As soon as you involve positioning, distances, and tactics that need map support, you'll need a map.
I usually don't need a detailed grasp of positioning, distance or tactics when there are only 2 players. Thank you again for pointing this out. I will think about it.

For vividness, you can draw from any R&D details you learned or noted. Turn your mine into multiple 5RDs where each 5RD's Feature Location is a new environment theme. That keeps things fresh in players' eyes, and gives to a storytelling tool for conveying player progression.
I'm not sure how you do this, but my first impression is that it is too complex as a structure for 3 hours. I will end up with 4 to 6 scenes in my experience, so one 5RD structure is about what I would expect to be realistic. Nevertheless, I didn't use it yet as actual rooms, but always as a general guideline to structure a flow of a session.

My goto reference here is Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness and the movie Apocalypse Now.
Sorry, I don't understand what these two have to do with mine delving. Do you have a specific vision of how they would influence such adventure? Could you be more specific please?

Make the mining stuff useful to gameplay.
That is a great tip. Yes.

Make what was being mined part of your design.
Do you have an idea beyond describing what was mined?

Checkov's Gun
Chekhov's Gun as in foreshadowing? Nice idea with the carts. Thank you!

Also, the track can be used to trap the players (most people will make assumptions when you introduce concepts like "mine" and "mining carts on tracks" and you can leverage that for Room III and IV). I guarantee players will follow the tracks blindly and not think to look for sink holes under the tracks waiting to collapse.
Again, a nice tip. Thank you.
I do not plan using traps though (at least not for the upper level(s) where miners work daily). But it doesn't need to be an intended trap... it could just be a downslide track and the PCs suddenly realize that the part in a few hundred meters broke away with age (or because of Kikimore intervention)...

Thank you again for your many tips!
 

JohnnFour

Game Master
Staff member
Adamantium WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Gamer Lifestyle
Demonplague Author
Borderland Explorer
I actually know very little about mining work. Great idea to start there, but do you have any immediate ideas about it from your own knowledge what to expect?
You list of ideas is good. Silver would be found in veins or twisting narrow bands of it inside the rock. If the dwarves used carts, that means they had a lot of rock to dig through and get rid of. The silver they could easily carry out in sacks and not bother with installing rail. So how did the dwarves get through the rock to reach the veins? Picture those tools and that'll give you more ideas. And silver is soft, so you'd need different tools to extract that. Maybe they had a way to heat the rock so the silver melted first and poured out. Maybe that heating method is still around....

How deep will the players travel? Air gets thinner the further down you go.

Speaking of gas, there's always danger of C02> A quick google gives us this gem:

The main toxic gases in mines are carbon monoxide (CO) and carbon dioxide (CO2); the flammable gases are methane (CH4), CO, and hydrogen (H2); the suffocating gases are CO2, nitrogen (N20), and CH4; and the toxic gases are CO, nitrogen oxides (NOx), and hydrogen sulfide (H2S)

Note the categories there. Instant hazards.

Mines suffer from water. So you'll have pools, sunken areas, and non-potable water hazards. Surfaces get slippery from moisture and bacteria colonies, mould, etc.

For encounters, you could have the silver in the walls as treasure, but also a silver elemental now guarding the dwarven atrocity or guarding for the dwarves. A mine cart could be a mimic. Or animated. So could the tools.

Getting players separated would be great. Divide and conquer. You'll need forked paths with loops for this. Echoes will prevent easy audibles to reunite.

Maps are overrated. The boring ones just lead you through the dungeon. It's like Star trek aliens being all the same. Use those Jaquay tips.

For mines with a rail system, no sharp turns. Any medium to sharp angle causes significant energy for moving carts full of rock. Likewise, there will be pulleys or other system to ease carts uphill. So assume a fairly straight central line. Then feeder tunnels from dwarves chasing veins, some long enough to justify their own track.

For Heart of Darkness and Apocalypse Now, I was thinking of the descent into a mine similar to the journey through jungle, where some great evil awaits. Add the philosophical stuff if you want. But those examples could inspire more detail and description from you.
 

Stephan Hornick

Community Goblin & Master of the Archive
Platinum WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Borderland Explorer
Just shortly for clarification: The dwarves left the silver (because it was poisonous) and only mined the gold. Later, new strands of silver appeared like they would spread like vines. Does this make any difference for you regarding how to mine gold instead of silver?
 

JohnnFour

Game Master
Staff member
Adamantium WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Gamer Lifestyle
Demonplague Author
Borderland Explorer
I don't think so. They have similar properties like having lustre and being malleable.
 

Stephan Hornick

Community Goblin & Master of the Archive
Platinum WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Borderland Explorer
You list of ideas is good. Silver would be found in veins or twisting narrow bands of it inside the rock. If the dwarves used carts, that means they had a lot of rock to dig through and get rid of. The silver they could easily carry out in sacks and not bother with installing rail. So how did the dwarves get through the rock to reach the veins? Picture those tools and that'll give you more ideas. And silver is soft, so you'd need different tools to extract that. Maybe they had a way to heat the rock so the silver melted first and poured out. Maybe that heating method is still around....
Great idea with the heating! That could later be used against the fire-weak Kikimore! And I will need to think about where the dwarves put the rocks afterwards. Would or could it be used to build their town? Or to reinforce the tunnels? In case they could somehow meld it, this seems probable, else they would need to dump it somewhere outside the mine.

How deep will the players travel? Air gets thinner the further down you go.
Speaking of gas, there's always danger of C02> A quick google gives us this gem:
The main toxic gases in mines are carbon monoxide (CO) and carbon dioxide (CO2); the flammable gases are methane (CH4), CO, and hydrogen (H2); the suffocating gases are CO2, nitrogen (N20), and CH4; and the toxic gases are CO, nitrogen oxides (NOx), and hydrogen sulfide (H2S)
Note the categories there. Instant hazards.
Again, nice ideas. I thought about gases and just came to "Nah! This would make everything too complicated."
But now, I think a pocket of gas could become interesting in the right area. Especially flammable, as the PCs could use it later against the Kikimore.

Mines suffer from water. So you'll have pools, sunken areas, and non-potable water hazards. Surfaces get slippery from moisture and bacteria colonies, mould, etc.
I will consider this. I like it.

For encounters, you could have the silver in the walls as treasure, but also a silver elemental now guarding the dwarven atrocity or guarding for the dwarves. A mine cart could be a mimic. Or animated. So could the tools.
A mimic or animated object would be too much high-fantasy for my taste here. And considering the time. A silver elemental could indeed have been left to protect the lower levels with the temple. But a gnome archaeologist found a way around it, so it shouldn't be too dificult.

For mines with a rail system, no sharp turns. Any medium to sharp angle causes significant energy for moving carts full of rock. Likewise, there will be pulleys or other system to ease carts uphill. So assume a fairly straight central line. Then feeder tunnels from dwarves chasing veins, some long enough to justify their own track.
This was very useful! Thank you.
 
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