Prepping The Demonplague

Winter's coming - time to game!

I want to give The Demonplague a bit of limelight.

But I am torn between converting it to Pathfinder 1, Pathfinder 2, or Old School Essentials.

So, I decided to ask you what conversion you want to see and which play reports you want to read.

 

My vote would be in order:
1. OSE
2. PF1
3. PF2

But, since all 3 have SRD available - it is probably whatever has the widest possible base of users...
And the only way to know that would be to poll the newsletter and site community... like you're doing.
Frankly, convert it to whichever user base speaks up the most - like a contest.

 

Some basic system comparison:

	D&D 5e	PF 1	PF 2	OSE
Ability Score Range	3 .. 18	3 .. 18	3 .. 18	3 .. 18
Ability Score Average	~12	~12	~12	~10
Ability Modifier Range	-4 .. +4	-4 .. +4	-4 .. +4	-3 .. +3
Ability Modifier Average	+1	+1	+1	+0
Class Level Range	1 .. 20	1 .. 20	1 .. 20	1 .. 14
Level 2 XP	300	3,000	(1,000)	2,000 (Fighter)
Level 14 XP	140,000	665,000	(13,000)	840,000 (Fighter)
Level 2 HP Average	11+2 (Fighter)	11+2 (Fighter)	20+2 (Fighter)	9 (Fighter)
Level 14 HP Average	77+14 (Fighter)	77+14 (Fighter)	150+15 (Fighter)	50 (Fighter)
Level 2 Attack Bonus	+2 (+1)	+2 (+1)	+4 (+1)	+0
Level 14 Attack Bonus	+5 (+1)	+14/+9/+4 (+1)	+20 (+1)	+9 (Fighter)
DC - Very easy - Easy - Medium - Hard - Very hard - Nearly impossible	5 10 15 20 25 30		11 / 27 (L2 / L14) 14 / 30 16 / 32 18 / 34 21 / 26 26 / 42
Skeleton	CR 1/4, 40 XP, 13 HP, AC 13	CR 1/3, 135 XP, 4 HP, AC 16	CR -1, (var XP), 4 HP, AC 16	10 XP, 4 HP, AC 12
Adult Red Dragon	CR 17, 18,000 XP, 256 HP, AC 19	CR 14, 38,400 XP, 212 HP, AC 29	CR 14, (var XP), 305 HP, AC 37	2,300 XP, 45 HP, AC 20
Longsword	15 gp, 1d8	15 gp, 1d8	1 gp, 1d8	10 gp, 1d8
Chainmail	AC 16, 75 gp	AC +6, 150 gp	AC +4, 6 gp	AC 14, 40 gp
Starting Wealth	(varies, ~110 gp)	175 gp (Fighter)	15 gp	105 gp
Comfortable Lifestyle	2 gp / day	10 .. 100 gp / month	1 gp / week

PF 1 seems closest: 5e levels faster, 5e power increases slower.
PF 2 will at least require a good deal of treasure conversion.
OSE progresses slower, and power seems lower.

 

Coins (and more stuff):

	D&D 5e​	PF 1​	PF 2​	OSE​
pp	10 gp	10 gp	10 gp	5 gp
gp	2 ep or 10 sp	10 sp	10 sp	2 ep or 10 sp
ep	5 sp	-	-	5 sp
sp	10 cp	10 cp	10 cp	10 cp
Weight	50 coins per pound	50 coins per pound	1,000 per bulk	10 coins per pound
Pony	30 gp	30 gp	7 gp	30 gp (Mule)
Riding Horse	75 gp	75 gp	8 gp	75 gp
1 lb of wheat	1 cp	1 cp
Hireling, skilled	2 gp per day	3 sp per day	5 sp per day	~2 gp per day
..., unskilled	2 sp per day	1 sp per day	1 sp per day	~5 sp per day
Ship Passage	1 sp per mile	1 sp per mile	6 cp per 5 miles
Sailing Ship	10,000 gp	10,000 gp		20,000 gp
Alchemist's fire	50 gp	20 gp	3 gp

A medium creature (150 to 200 lbs) is 6 bulk in PF 2, so 1 bulk is about 30 lbs, so 33 coins are roughly a pound.

 

Those comparisons are cool in their own right - great tips for module makers and GMs porting adventures

 

Some of these games expect a certain wealth at specific levels:

Level	D&D 5e​	PF 1​	PF 2​	OSE​
2	- / ~100 gp	1000 gp	30 gp	1000 gp
4	- / ~400 gp	6000 gp	140 gp	4000 gp
6	625 gp / 4000 gp	16,000 gp	450 gp	16,000 gp
8	625 gp / 11,000 gp	33,000 gp	1100 gp	60,000 gp
10	625 gp / 18,000 gp	62,000 gp	2300 gp	180,000 gp
12	6250 gp / 40,000 gp	108,000 gp	4500 gp	300,000 gp
14	6250 gp / 75,000 gp	185,000 gp	9300 gp	420,000 gp

For D&D 5e: suggested starting wealth for new characters at that level / interpolated wealth after adventuring to that level based on tier hoard value.

In OSE, XP is awarded for recovered treasure and defeated monsters. The monster XP vs. their treasure value varies wildly from a Group of Skeletons (70:0) over a Group of Bandits (40:160) to a Red Dragon (2300:60,000) - Minotaurs (1100:1000), Bugbears (350:2000), (Elemental 1200:0) - the above values assume just 1:1 for a Fighter.

This shines a very different light on:

PF 1 seems closest: 5e levels faster, 5e power increases slower.
PF 2 will at least require a good deal of treasure conversion.
OSE progresses slower, and power seems lower.

PF 1: Increase treasure 10x to 3x.
PF 2: Keep 5e treasure as is / decrease to 1/3 to 1/10.
OSE: Increase treasure 10x to 30x / 10x to 5x.

 

Level progression throughout the adventure (important for encounter budget/treasure value):

• End of chapter 4: Level 2 or gain 600 XP (halfway to level 3)
  • PF 1: ~3500 XP (or just 3000 XP)
  • PF 2: ~1500 XP (or just 1000 XP)
  • OSE: ~3000 XP (or just 2000 XP)
• End of chapter 5: Level 3 or gain 800 XP (500 XP towards level 4)
  • PF 1: ~2800 XP (or just 3000 XP)
  • PF 2: ~800 XP (or just 1000 XP)
  • OSE: ~2300 XP (or just 2000 XP)
• End of adventure: Level 4 (at least 1300 XP)
  • PF 1: ~2700 XP (or just 3000 XP)
  • PF 2: ~700 XP (or just 1000 XP)
  • OSE: ~2700 XP (or just 4000 XP)

 

I vote OSE, as it is the easiest to understand and seems to be the easiest gateway for further conversions.

 

PF2 and OSE are in the balance currently. Though, there are only eight votes as of now:


PF1 is no longer en vogue it seems.

 

One possible Luna Valley Daytime Encounter is "1 bandit captain and 1d6 bandits."

Bandit Captain: CR 2 (450 XP), AC 15 (studded leather), HP 65 (10d8+20), +5 to hit
Bandit: CR 1/8 (25 XP), AC 12 (leather armor), HP 11 (2d8+2), +3 to hit

This will net 550 XP and no predefined treasure. This will take a group of four adventures nearly halfway toward level 2.

In OSE:

Bandit: 10 XP, AC 13 (suggesting leather + Dex bonus), HP 4 (1 HD), +0 to hit
Bandit Leader (level 2+, any human class): fighter 5, 175 XP, AC 14 (leather + Dex bonus), HP 27 (5d8+5), +3 to hit

~160gp of treasure

This will net 375 XP. This will bring a group of four fighters roughly one-twentieth toward level 2.

The challenge seems about the same, and even if unbalanced, the characters can buy their way out of combat.

 

One possible Luna Valley Daytime Encounter is "1 bandit captain and 1d6 bandits."

Bandit Captain: CR 2 (450 XP), AC 15 (studded leather), HP 65 (10d8+20), +5 to hit
Bandit: CR 1/8 (25 XP), AC 12 (leather armor), HP 11 (2d8+2), +3 to hit

This will net 550 XP and no predefined treasure. This will take a group of four adventures nearly halfway toward level 2.

In OSE:

Bandit: 10 XP, AC 13 (suggesting leather + Dex bonus), HP 4 (1 HD), +0 to hit
Bandit Leader (level 2+, any human class): fighter 5, 175 XP, AC 14 (leather + Dex bonus), HP 27 (5d8+5), +3 to hit

~160gp of treasure

This will net 375 XP. This will bring a group of four fighters roughly one-twentieth toward level 2.

The challenge seems about the same, and even if unbalanced, the characters can buy their way out of combat.

I did some very simple calculations based on these values and determined a flat (without any tactics) 39% "success chance" for a group of four fighters against four bandits and a captain in 5e.

To match this for OSE, I have to reduce the number of bandits to 2 (so, the encounter will be based on 1d4 bandits + captain, instead of 1d6 + captain).

 

OSE is getting ahead! No love for PF 1.

 

OSE is increasing its lead.

 

No love for PF 1.

Ha! At least someone voted PF 1 - so it is not yet dead! (Indeed, I am very fond of PF 1.)

 

Another PF 1 vote!

 

Another vote for OSE. The poll will stay open, but the decision seems to be made: OSE.

 

I found a cool CR equivalent mentioned here: https://www.enworld.org/threads/bx-ose-encounter-challenge-level.676929/post-8144178

RC wrote:

• 1-10% Minor: Most random encounters should be of this level. Often minor encounters are used to warn a party of something worse ahead.
• 10-20% Too Easy: An encounter that is too easy is best ignored or played for humor. It is not a real challenge unless the party is weaponless or injured.
• 20-30% Distraction: This is a smaller encounter that will cost the party some hit points but should be easy to overcome. This level should be used when there are many encounters and the party has little chance to recover from previous ones.
• 30-50% Good Fight: This is the most common level of encounter and can make up half of an adventure. A good fight may also include tough random encounters.
• 50-70% Challenging: This encounter will challenge a party's might, but the party has the odds in its favor if the encounter is played well. If the ad- venture is short, three to five of these encounters may be used.
• 70-90% Major: This type of encounter is usually used as the main fight or climax of an adventure. If an adventure has little fighting, the DM may want to include one or two of these encounters.
• 90-110% Risky: The monsters are equal to the party and there is an even chance that either side may win. This encounter may require many of the party's resources, and some members may die. Risky encounters are sometimes used for the grand finale to a quest.

EDIT: Count an asterisk as half the HD of the creature, so 4* becomes 6, 4** becomes 8, etc.

 

And so it starts:

 

If you ever had the inclination, a 5E to PF2 conversion guide would be popular right now.

Paizo released news that they've sold 8 months of product inventory in January. Lots of GMs are trying to migrate to PF. A conversion dock could be a very effective Trinket for list growth. But only if interested.

What I'm thinking is you take your pre-existing analysis and use that. Then add a chart that maps D&D 5E DCs to PF2 DCs. If you can think of anything else, great. Else we could float that out for feedback.

 

My group will use PF2.