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Could chasing thieves be a 5RD, and should it?

ungooglable

Member
Wizard of Story
I mean not a chase per se, but rather the whole operation of retrieving your goods fromnthe thieves?

PCs in my game are going to provide good opportunities for thieves to steal their magic good in Beregost. Probably.

It's fun, but I don't want PCs to loose their weapons. I'm going to leave a 'trail' that leads to their enemies (a Cult Of the Dragon cell)

  • Can it be a 5RD?
  • Is there a better structure for that?
  • How to do it? (How it should be done?)
 

ExileInParadise

RPG Therapist
Staff member
Adamantium WoA
Wizard of Story
Can you describe the chase in the following terms?

1. Entrance and Guardian - a first encounter with the thieves which brings the party to the attention of said guys
Perhaps this is an attempt by one of the low-level thieves to steal something else from the party - exposing the magic good to the thieves to start to want?

2. Puzzle / Roleplay - the party and the thieves puzzle / roleplay - perhaps negotiating a deal for the magic item?
Maybe the thieves are impersonating a legitimate broker.

3. Trick / Setback - the encounter where the thieves steal the goods - the chase is on
Whatever chase mechanics / scenes you like here - this is where they follow your trial starting with how the PCs know the thieves took it.

4. Climax - race, chase, investigate, whatever ... eventually catch up with thieves and conflict with them for the item.
Can the PCs talk the thieves out of the item?
Can the PCs trick the thieves to get the item back?
Can the PCs explore the thieves area and get the item stealthily/unseen?
Can the PCs overcome the thieves in combat to get the item?

5. Treasure / Reward - they get the magic thing back and clues to more adventure in Beregost - what else do the thieves have? know? do?
Any items the thieves also have may be hooks to more adventures.
Maps to treasure caches?
Other stolen items each with a story?
Captives to free?
Lists of spies, contacts, assassins contracts, etc?

The 5 Room Dungeons book has a lot of example 5RDs in it - you can also review room 1 entrance/guardian examples for more ideas on how to setup just that first encounter, then review the examples for each of the other rooms.
 

JohnnFour

Game Master
Staff member
Adamantium WoA
Wizard of Story
Wizard of Combat
Gamer Lifestyle
Demonplague Author
Borderland Explorer
@ungooglable Yes, definitely.

If we think about what a story is, it's just a sequence of information with a beginning, middle, and end.

A good story has a hero (or someone to empathize with), conflict, and reward/outcome.

The 5RD template applies to any story.

Story can be pretty much any length. (Google for 5 word stories or ## word stories to see what's possible for short stuff.)

Therefore, our the 5RD story can map to any RPG story which can be any length.

I have unpublished Musings on 5RD structure for combat rounds and single encounters.

All this to say, think about the story to be told, and then follow the 5RD template:

Beginning: Room I
Middle: Rooms II - IV
End: Room V

You can put conflict in each room or just Room IV. Better stories have layered conflicts, so I try to add to every room.
 

ungooglable

Member
Wizard of Story
1. Entrance and Guardian - a first encounter with the thieves which brings the party to the attention of said guys
Perhaps this is an attempt by one of the low-level thieves to steal something else from the party - exposing the magic good to the thieves to start to want?

2. Puzzle / Roleplay - the party and the thieves puzzle / roleplay - perhaps negotiating a deal for the magic item?
Maybe the thieves are impersonating a legitimate broker.

No, no, no
I meant not a whole story about losing the goods and acquiring them back, but just an attempt to get them back

Like
  1. Entrance: Items are lost!
    • (Hm... what could be a 'Guardian' here?)
  2. Puzzle: find the lead(s) - this could be a big one, up to severalencounters really
    • + 5 Actions polish
    • Does following the leads need to be an encounter?
  3. Setback: The Thieves are captured by the Cultists!
    • Because those magic Items belong to the Cult, and are recognized as such easily.
    • So the Cultists are eager to know whom the thieves took them from...
    • How can PCs learn about that, exactly? (several options)
    • Minor conflict?
  4. Climax: Dealing with the Cultists. Getting the Goods back
    • + 5 Actions polish
  5. Reward and hook: Info about the Cult (destination)
 
Last edited:

ungooglable

Member
Wizard of Story
@ungooglable Yes, definitely.
...

The 5RD template applies to any story.
...

Aha
Thanks, I was worried if I am over-engineering things

@ungooglable You can put conflict in each room or just Room IV. Better stories have layered conflicts, so I try to add to every room.

I see... I believe I don't need many conflicts here. This is a nested 5RD already. The first part -- losing the goods during downtime -- isn't a regular 5RD (it's too non-linear for that), but is very close to it. Also I want the whole chapter to take a couple of sessions
 

ExileInParadise

RPG Therapist
Staff member
Adamantium WoA
Wizard of Story
And now the big (off-topic) question here is what if PCs successfully prevent the theft?

"We'll get you next time..."

Reuse the 5RD parts that you made for when the PCs fail to prevent the theft - just put on a new "on ramp" encounter.

Whoever they are delivering or selling this item to could still turn out to be a member of the thieves guild, and the PCs only find out after they turned over the item... and real person expecting it then asks them what's up...

It's just a detour - not a roadblock - if the PCs prevent the theft the first time...
 

ExileInParadise

RPG Therapist
Staff member
Adamantium WoA
Wizard of Story
I'm not afraid of 'roadblock'. The problem is that they could prevent a theft in 5 minutes of gameplay, leaving the game where it was

Review the players, their characters, and the thieves.

How can the players prevent the theft through roleplay?
What can the thieves do to counter that?

How can the players prevent the theft through trickery?
What can the thieves do to counter that?

How can the players prevent the theft through exploration?
What can the thieves do to counter that?

How can the players avoid encounter the thieves at all?
What can the thieves do to counter that?

What abilities, skills, feats, equipment or spells are the top 2-3 ways the PCs might prevent the theft with?
What are the weaknesses of those abilities, skills, feats, equipment, or spells that the thieves can exploit to help accomplish the theft?

For your adventure idea to work, you need at least 3 different ways that the thieves end up with things in their hands.
Those transitions - what opportunties will the thieves have?
Steal from hotel?
Ambush in street?
Knockout potion in their mead?
A clever substitution so the PCs don't even know they've been stolen from until twist reveal later?
 

ungooglable

Member
Wizard of Story
And now the big (off-topic) question here is what if PCs successfully prevent the theft?
Ok, 'for whom it may concern' I'll tell my solution to the question

I take the showdown with the Cultist Toughs as a centerpiece, a permanent detail I want to happen in most cases (or provoke the Players / PCs to avoid it actively and cleverly). This is a happening I reward with a level up for that whole chapter.

So if the PCs avoid the traps (see below) and got their Goods stolen, the trail leads them to the Cultists.

If PCs fail to follow the trail, the Cultists will find them first (surprise!), because they recognize the stolen Goods as the Cuits' possession.

If the PCs somehow avoid anything else entirely, then the Cultist Tough's never were ambassadors or dealers or rescuers or anything else. In that case (only) they always were hitmen seeking PCs (as a retaliation for PCs' victories over the Cult in the previous chapters)/ This is our worse case scenario, a safeguard

In the very beginnig of their adventures in Berdusk I'll present some Social Traps. Theese are some unwieldy situations which easily can get our murderhobos arrested. If they 'fire' a trap, but got away with it in the big city of Berdusk, then OK, the feat itself is worth a level up (and some severe consequences most probably)

If the PCs do get arrested, then there are some low-level cultists next door in the dungeon. A whole Cult's cell caught by the city guard. But in the middle of the night the party of Cultist Toughs comes to rescue their comrades or at least slaughter them to prevent leaks. And by mistake they will free PCs as well (one of PCs is a Dragonborn in an armor of the cult's champion and another two are wielding some weapons they took from cultists)

Now it's robust enough ...I hope
 
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