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Logger plus Wiki plus docs? What do you use?

Strange

New member
Hi all

I'm interested to know how Logger fits into your GM 'workflow' for you all...

Me, I was drawn to Logger because I try to keep detailed session notes during play. Previously I've done this by hand in A4 notebooks, scribbling down what the characters get up to, noteworthy speeches, and so on. Within a day or two of the session being over, I'll then produce a writeup of the session as a Google Doc (with some artistic license) and distribute to the players (I've also used a FB page/doc in a group for this). And, since my campaigns are pbta/player-created content, I'll have to keep some for of notes on all the elements that come up - NPCs, organisations, locations and so on. I'd tried using OneNote for this, and got a certain way.

Problem was, lovely as the notebooks were to read nostalgically, they distracted me from actually gming and listening actively to my group, and they weren't searchable/taggable to easily find stuff in.

I'm now trying Kanka.io as the 'wiki' which I hope to make partly accessible to players/my wider gaming group, Logger for making in-session notes/planning/thinking, and probably still a doc (though this might become a page in Kanka) as the write up. I tried using Kanka instead of logger for making notes in one session, but it's suprising just *how* optimised Logger is for fast note-taking!

This does mean there's quite a bit of duplication - info in Roll20, Logger and Kanka...

So, I guess my question is, what do *you* use? Do you have a 'wiki' distinct from Logger? Am I missing something in using Logger/future Logger that would mean I don't need the wiki? Are there any particular third-party systems as a campaign database that you've found to work well with Logger - maybe embedding links and so on?

Thoughts and advice appreciated!

s
 

ELF

Generator Sage
Staff member
Beta-Tester
Faster Combatant
I have dabbled with various Wiki-like tools, but haven't really settled on anything. What notes I take during the game are usually on paper, as I have found it to be faster and less distracting. For me campaign tools are for prepping and updating the campaign notes after the sessions.

The next version of Campaign Logger (currently in open beta and known with the code name vNext) should be able to handle also the Wiki-like note taking. Check if the new features suit your needs:
https://campaign-community.com/index.php?threads/preview-campaign-logger-vnext-beta-access.681/
 
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JohnnFour

Game Master
Staff member
Demonplague Author
Wizard of Adventure
Beta-Tester
Adventure Builder
Gamer Lifestyle
As @ELF mentioned, Campaign Logger vNext, currently in beta which you are welcome to try, has a Campaign Entry feature, which is a note with 250,000 character limit.

We're also working on a Feeds feature, which would allow you to share notes with your players. @JochenL Will Feeds work for Campaign Entries and Log Entries by default, or should I add Feed for Campaign Entries as a wishlist item?

@Strange what other features are you looking for from a wiki or tool?
 

JochenL

CL Byte Sprite
Staff member
Wizard of Adventure
Beta-Tester
Faster Combatant
Adventure Builder
Gamer Lifestyle
Will Feeds work for Campaign Entries and Log Entries by default, or should I add Feed for Campaign Entries as a wishlist item?
Feeds only work for log entries and are intended for sharing with anyone.

For close cooperation like GM and their players, we have another feature in the pipeline, and this will add intermixing of log and campaign entries for all parties.
 

Strange

New member
Sounds interesting!

I think what I'm probably looking for is a layout for the 'public/player' view that is structured more for leisurely browsing and lookup, rather than optimised for fast note taking. It'd be great to be able to combine the two into one tool by adding a 'wiki' tag or something to a log entry, though maybe it is just campaign entries that would make it over.

By way of example, attached is a shot of my initial attempts to set something up in a 'campaign wiki' type service, kanka.io. I think it's similar to what World Anvil and others offer? From my limited testing, it's not great for trying to type fast tagged in-session notes, but it does provide a navigable structure for a campaign 'almanac'.

kankacampaign.png
 

Louis Davout

New member
Faster Combatant
Adventure Builder
@Strange what other features are you looking for from a wiki or tool?
If I may add some requests - note I'm not a paying customer yet, still evaluating. I'd like to see the following:
  • Rename propagation of entries? In other words, in some wikis when you rename an topic, the wiki will change the text of all the link references in all other topics.
  • Ability to mark individual session entries and campaign entries as public/sharable (or whatever) that can either be viewed directly by players (non paying people) or exported and then sent to players. You mention Feeds above, I'm currently ignorant of those, so maybe those provide that feature.
  • Since I haven't used it yet - just started playing around with the preview - I may not have the correct mind set yet, but to my way of thinking, allow multiple sub-data for each campaign entry*. Each "sub-datum" would have title, text, and public/private flag. Datum marked as private would not viewable or exported to players. Ex: Entry for Greyhawk City with Population: 58,000. 80% Human, 10% Halfling, 5% Dwarf, 4% Elf, 1% Other. {Public}. Government: blah, blah {Public}. Evil Factions: Cult of the Fluffy Bunny, Hoarders of Donuts {Private}. I'm sure you could put all that into a single data field and use markdown headers, but the piece I'm looking for is the public/private of subsections of an entry. I suppose a work around could be each of the above subsections could be it's own entry #Greyhawk-Population, #Greyhawk-Evil Factions etc. Then I would need to create a TOC entry for #Greyhawl that points to each.
* As a former software developer, I'm sure the developers are thinking "please, no" :)
 

JohnnFour

Game Master
Staff member
Demonplague Author
Wizard of Adventure
Beta-Tester
Adventure Builder
Gamer Lifestyle
Rename propagation entities - As long as you use Tag notation (!, @, #, $, %, etc.) you can batch edit Tags and all your Log Entries will be instantly updated with the new spelling/text.

Public entries - Yes, Streams does this. However, you need to set each Log Entry (data record) as shareable or not. We're also planning player access but requirements for that are not hammered out yet.

Sub-data. Think of CL more like Twitter or Evernote, which are less hierarchical. In vNext you have a root or core entry for something like a city, for example. You can make infinite notes about that city using Log Entries. All that data will be associated when you tag with the city name or reference. You can search and filter to find your data and "sub-data". But the data itself has no hierarchy.

We are planning to add meta data field(s) to Log Entries, allowing cross-matrix style groupings. But that's breadth, not depth.

@JochenL What did we decide on using meta data or other feature to create multiple levels of Tag hierarchies? The nested Log Entries chats we had with Hannu and others last year.

Thanks for the suggestions @Louis Davout!
 

Louis Davout

New member
Faster Combatant
Adventure Builder
Rename propagation entities - As long as you use Tag notation (!, @, #, $, %, etc.) you can batch edit Tags and all your Log Entries will be instantly updated with the new spelling/text.
OK is that a future feature or current? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I created entry @Bob with text: Was born in #Mudcreek.
I then created #Mudcreek.
I then renamed #Mudcreek to #Mudleak. And btw the ui says "Changing the spelling will not update occurences of the tag."
I go back to @Bob and the text still show #Mudcreek. I even clicked the refresh button.
 

JochenL

CL Byte Sprite
Staff member
Wizard of Adventure
Beta-Tester
Faster Combatant
Adventure Builder
Gamer Lifestyle
OK is that a future feature or current? Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
You are doing nothing wrong. CL v1 has this feature. CL vNext will get it soon.
 
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